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BUILE HILL PARK HOUSING IS ONLY WAY TO SAVE SALFORD MANSION STATES DEVELOPER
 

Star date: 29th November 2018

OVER SIXTY HOUSES FOR DEPOT AND BANQUET AREA IN RETURN FOR SAVING MANSION Ė 'A STARK CHOICE'

Capital and Centric developer, Tim Heatley, finally laid out his plans for saving the Buile Hill Park Mansion last night at a community meeting. The proposal included over sixty houses, built on the depot area of the park and what is currently the banqueting suite, which would be privately rented, affordable rented and available to the elderly.

The scheme was met with mixed reactions and Heatley said that he would hoist the white flag and walk away if he got 'mullered' by the community over the plans.

Full details here...


Buile Hill Mansion Proposals Buile Hill Mansion Proposals Buile Hill Mansion Proposals
click image to enlarge

There were certainly mixed reactions to Capital and Centric's proposals to save the Buile Hill Park Mansion at its Support Group public meeting last night in the Methodist Church on the Height...

As expected, plans were unveiled for the building of around sixty houses in the depot area and on the site of the current banqueting suite which would be privately rented, affordable rented to 'key workers' and available to the elderly as extra care facilities.

Capital and Centric's Tim Heatley stressed that the houses would not be 'Barratt boxes' but 'really beautifully designed spaces' in keeping with the nature of the park, with an 'agricultural vibe'. The idea for artists' studios or a hotel were ruled out as unviable.

The land would remain under the ownership of Salford City Council, with a covenant, and there would be some sort of trust or charity set up to funnel profits into the restoration and sustainability of the Mansion, which would have community spaces upstairs and a cafe, gallery and public spaces on its ground and basement floors.

Near the end of the presentation showing the sketchy housing plans, a slide came up, which was more or less a gun to the community's head. It showed how the Mansion could be a 'Managed Ruin' and left to rot, in a 'managed' kind of way...

"I feel like I've been conned" one resident told Heatley..."What else have you got up your sleeve?"..."I can see huge opposition" added another "A step too far for most people" decided another "It was pretty clear at the public meeting...that everybody was against housing in the park in any shape or form..."

"It's the perception of what housing is" countered another resident..."It's the only way to keep the Mansion...It's a lifeline for the Mansion...the houses will be sympathetically built, there's got to be some give and take" added others...

Then Bill Taylor, who works with the Salford Reds Foundation, which hopes to get space within the restored Mansion, laid it on the line...

"The Chinese have walked away; the project was too small for them" he declared "So there is a stark choice Ė one way or no way. It's what is acceptable to the community..."

Even many who signed the original petition against putting houses in the park, reluctantly backed the proposals, given the Salford-style Hobson's Choice.

"My problem that I've got is that I'm 5-0 down at half time because if I say to anybody...that I'm going to put some houses in the park...there's two fingers for you; 'It's not happening'" Heatley explained "My issue is how we get over that...If I can get to a level playing field..."

The Salford Star asked Heatley what the headline in any article could be... 'You're proposing to put houses in the park what else could the headline be?'

"If that's the headline I'm going to get mullered because there'll probably be another campaign that says 'Let's not do it' and I'll have to go 'I'm not going to do it'..." he responded "If that headline goes up unfortunately I'm going to have to wave the white flag...because that's what people will read from it...

"...If the feedback on social media is that 'this is awful' then I'll have to wave the white flag..." Heatley concluded.

"I don't want you to walk away because I know you are the last ditch..." said a resident "If you walk away who is going to come on board? It's how we are going to sell it to the wider community...If you walk away we're back to square one..."

Capital and Centric and the Buile Hill Mansion Support Group now awaits the reaction from the whole Salford community...

Bob the regular wrote
at 20:09:17 on 11 December 2018
Well come on then, what are we gonna get for £4million? Or is this "confidential"?

Ed Blaney wrote
at 20:56:01 on 06 December 2018
I had a good positive meeting yesterday with Tim. He accepts the plans for houses of any kind are not popular with the public and so do the council. There are other alternatives being discussed, one's that will it's hoped suit everybody.

Igno Pope wrote
at 20:55:39 on 06 December 2018
This is a public park not a housing estate Keep these greedy developers OUT of our park .

Rayofsunshine wrote
at 20:54:47 on 06 December 2018
For once I agree totally with Mary Ferrer - I hope I'm not coming down with something!

Bob the regular wrote
at 20:54:31 on 06 December 2018
It is obvious to me that we have some great experts here who have had a good methodical think about this great project. A great deal of serious thought has gone into it by people who know what they are doing. So, can you please tell me what we are going to get for our £4 million quid. at a very rough guess there are about6000 sq feet on the mansion site. Divide £4million by 6000 you get £666, the devils number. to put things into perspective, the Shard in London cost less than half this to build from scratch . The Shard is a luxurious high tech building in the most expensive place in the world to build, and with tons of logistical problems. here we have a substantial building already, with dead straight walls, substantial inner floors ,a roof that looks great.No major structural works needed. Where is this cash going to go? I know what the answer is, " It's all commercially sensitive". Well that is the usual answer in Salford, It is always commercially XXXXXXX sensitive. Come on ,lets have the answer.

Mary ferrer wrote
at 07:01:11 on 06 December 2018
The mayor put out a press release 1 hour before we had our first meeting. NO PRIVATE HOUSES TO BE BUILT IN THE PARK.Great,fantastic. But NO,a sneaky word can make all the difference, that word being PRIVATE. Roll forward a few months and we have a survey of Salford people and great ideas for the mansion and the former stables. Do capital and centric take any notice, NO. They want to build 60plus houses,some for our mature residents and Key sector workers.NOW the new puzz word is RENTED Do our council and this company think the residents of Salford are that bloody gulable.What bit of NO HOUSES don't they understand.What price can you put on a development like this.We need £4Million to renovate the Mansion. C&C are talking about a figure of £30M to build houses and renovate the mansion.why can't they just renovate the Mansion and the council pay it back over 10 years from the profit from the newly renovated mansion. They borrowed £19M for a new large park. Why not just look after what we have.

ROSSI wrote
at 18:37:09 on 05 December 2018
If we foolishly hadn't have voted for BREXIT, then we could have got funding to implement my idea of turning the mansion house into a residential home and training centre for gay homeless youths and asylum seekers. It was a grand idea of mine and would have borne more fruit down the years than any of the cherry trees in Buile Hill park. Failing that, Emmaus boss Simon's idea was pretty good.

Salford Lad wrote
at 09:59:16 on 05 December 2018
Is it any wonder there is scepticism when we learn there is yet another proposal from a property developer? Salfords history is littered with examples of poor planning, corruption, dreadful new estates, and the destruction of our beautiful landmark buildings. But if we donít want to see the disappearance of one of the few iconic buildings we have left, it is vitally important that Salfordians get their act together and engage with this issue. My concern is that many refuse to accept that money - a lot of money - needs to raised. Without dangling the carrot of an investment opportunity, I canít see that happening. It is naive to believe a fairy godmother is going to step in and save the day - and want nothing in return. Whatever the future of Buile Hill Park and its Mansion house, without people coming together - in a structured organised way - we will never get the building and the Park brought back to its former glory. Itís do-able - but we have to get involved and be flexible and open-minded in our approach.

Tony Davey, Friends of Buile Hill Park wrote
at 05:25:02 on 05 December 2018
While FoBHP dont want houses in the park we do acknowledge that the restoration of the mansion has to be funded from somewhere. No one wants homes in our lovely park however we also dont want the mansion to disappear. Tim has said that this was an initial proposal based on the guideline that all development must be in the depot or mansion area however he is open to suggestions. I suggested to him that the current car park on the left as you enter the park is more of a waste land just now and houses could be built there instead, leaving the depot area to become a new car park with maybe some of the artist or creative workshops he previously mentioned, he's open to looking at this as an alternative. The main thing is that we all try to keep an open mind on what happens and attend the meetings to provide our comments and feedback. We need to remember that the council could still go through with this regardless of what anyone thinks so lets all be constructive at how this could be improved instead of just saying "No". Have a look at Tim/Capital and Centric's other projects and you can see they have always stood out as being a cut above the rest, high quality and not like the usual square bland apartment blocks everyone else seems to build.

clive of india wrote
at 05:24:42 on 05 December 2018
I support Pauline's comments. So far there is a petition of 3000 signatures in opposition to building in the park and out of this ONE person currently organising meetings (attended by between 20/30 persons) on behalf of the Mansion Support Group - no secretary, no committee, all too busy? Where are you the 3000 signatories? - put your money where your mouth is and bring in the funding to achieve your vision So far we have a single proposal on the table from Capital and Centric. Engage and debate. It's the only way forward. Stamp your feet and the house and park are doomed to further decay.

Rayofsunshine wrote
at 05:22:49 on 05 December 2018
Why does Joe Tim Heatley require housing development in Buile Hill Park? Is he using the promise of restÚring the mansion as "a loss leader" in order that he can acquire a valuable public asset,land? What guarantees are there that the amount invested by Mr.Heatley will match the value of the land transferred? Why can't Mr.Heatley fund his proposed restoration purely from the revenue flowing from increased use of Buile Hill?

Pauline Bedfords wrote
at 22:49:19 on 03 December 2018
There are some good ideas on here, I agree it needs positive dialogue to see what solutions can be found. As I understand it, there will no houses built on parkland, just the derelict depot (which is closed off to the public!). Lets be honest the park is in an absolutely terrible state. how often do we get a local and self made millionaire prepared to stump up millions for the long term. Tim heatley has even proposed that the new space will remain in our ownership and Salford Council. I agree the solution isn't perfect yet, thats fine but we should work with Tim and tell the council what we want to see happen. Lets work together to restore the mansion, the grounds, the paths, the gardens, the glasshouse, the play areas and the eradicate crime with progress and dialogue

Mary ferrer wrote
at 07:43:00 on 02 December 2018
Get one thing straight, I am NOT happy with houses within the park. I made that quite clear at the meeting. People spoke of land swap, not in the park which I have put to Tim Heatley. People spoke of houses on the perimeter of the park,not in the heart of the park.If we ALL work together hopefully we could come up with a workable plan.Tim is trying to work with the people, but at the end of the day any big project like the restoration of the Mansion won't be cheap. Any work done on the building has to be done by experts.if it goes ahead with a plan that people like. Work on the mansion will take place at the same time. So one of the fears people have spoken about "building, then find they have no funds for the mansion" won't happen. The whole package will be funded by Capital and centric. The houses where ever built will given to a trust/ will be owned by the council and Tim Heatley will be paid back from the rents over a 30/35 year agreement.Any funds made from the revenue of the mansion will be used for upkeep and any running costs of the Mansion. I am NOT happy about the houses, but I don't want the mansion falling down or burnt to the ground. I don't want another Monks hall.its been tinned up for 19years, do we leave it for anothe 19 years. Don't think it will be there in 2030. Any trees removed have to be replaced by 2, that is planning law. It's early days,and I am sure if Capital and centric see thousands saying NO they they will walk away. This company have done work all over the north west and a lot bigger,so it won't hurt them financially if it doesn't go ahead. Tim knows the history of the Mansion since 2000 and it didn put him off. I do believe he has a passion for seeing the Mansion and the wider park brought back to life. But where now ????

clive of india wrote
at 06:08:40 on 01 December 2018
Hopefully what should happen is a dialogue between different interest groups who will make their ideas known through community meetings and consultations and influence what happens through dialogue. Bearing in mind the financial restraints on Salford Council, this is an opportunity to stuff austerity and show that positive partnership working can overcome obstacles and bring about a better future for the park even within the current economic climate and the uncertainty of brexit. Come together and we can do this. Reject blame culture and negativity and we might make some headway.

Ed Blaney wrote
at 06:07:45 on 01 December 2018
It would not be a public park anymore. There are many, many alternatives. No houses should be built. Its a beautiful park and space. The public have waited for years for the renovation. It's time to open up the workshop space for public use, events and make the park something special for future generations to enjoy. Nothing personal. A park is an open space, not one with any kind of houses. 30 million pound? The council and public could raise the money required to restore the mansion. Heritage funding etc. It is a public park. Not last chance saloon.

Bobs my uncle wrote
at 06:07:32 on 01 December 2018
Mr Brexit, great idea. Get the lottery on board, we can get local schools on board as well, seeing men and women in uniform walking around the Park will give kids, people to look up too, and as bob the reg said get prince harry on board as well. Like brexit outlined it would be a great inviroment for serving and ex soldiers to recoup from and a great project if thatís the right word, to get the wider public on board. Iíd rather see soldiers who have served this country walking around this park than see as brexit says yuppies. Letís push Brexits idea forwards, love the suggestion Brexit

Bob the regular wrote
at 21:53:03 on 30 November 2018
Well I am bound to find goodness in something that someone called Mr Brexit comes up with. Broughton house does a great job helping our military veterans, something we are all grateful for, and the building itself looks a bit dated, it has been in use many years. I am more than sure we could do a much better job for these people with that site in the park put to use for them, and they could then help even more of our military veterans. Their old site would be worth a fortune because of where it is. Couple that with a bit of lottery cash, get Prince Harry on board to kick a few arses and it would work great. If houses are going to be built on that depot site, for the public good, who could possibly object to the use outlined by Mr Brexit. It all would depend on the Broughton house people, do they like the idea? I do.

Em3 wrote
at 19:38:51 on 30 November 2018
Mmmmmm ĎAffordableí ?? Meaningless

life is loud wrote
at 19:38:38 on 30 November 2018
I am with team Tim the park is a disgrace

Mark Taylor wrote
at 19:38:04 on 30 November 2018
We all need to come together as a community here and explore this in more detail, I took the time to sit in the room on wednesday and many of the concerns raised on this thread were covered off by tim heatley on the night. For example, there are no houses in the park, just in the derelict depot area. They will be owned by the council and the people of salford, not sold off ie no privatisation. The depot area would be reopened to the public too. The Mansion would be restored for community use and cafe. The rent from the new space would be used to part fund the restoration. Im not saying its perfect as there is a lot of detail to discuss but lets not kill it without the full knowledge of whats being proposed. Of the 30 people in the room only about 3 or 4 totally objected having heard the detail, the rest agreed it was wurth backing if the concerns were addressed. This local lad is willing to put £millions into it which he says will take 35+ years to recoup, I wouldn't kick it into touch just yet.

clive of india wrote
at 19:37:56 on 30 November 2018
Salford is estimated to be 60% green. There are lots of green spaces including neighbourhood parks all in varying degrees of upkeep and open land and playing fields across the wider area. At Buile the compound area of just under 4 acres is a brownfield site sitting within a park of 68 acres. There were originally joinery workshop, forge and potting sheds etc. in this location, closed off to the public and creating a physical barrier. I urge everyone to keep an open mind, attend consultations and make your ideas known if you really care about the future of the park and its mansion house and want to influence the outcomes. Local people have completed a questionnaire and shown their preferences. These come at a cost. If anyone has an idea of how to raise approximately £30m then now is the time to step forward.

Rayofsunshine wrote
at 19:37:28 on 30 November 2018
Why does Tim Heatley require housing development žn Býiĺe Hžĺl Park? I thÚught Mr.Heatley a was going to recoup his investment by generating revenue from a rejuvenated Buile Hžĺl Mansion? Note also that Mary Ferrer is perfectly relaxed with the idea that Mr.Heatley engages in nakeď asset stripping,sžc "land swap". So much fÚr the self-appointeď "defender of pubĺic assŤts in Salford" - Maŕż Ferrer!

Jill Royle wrote
at 08:03:20 on 30 November 2018
Shaun Burrows, hi, tbh I do not see the same punchline to you. Taking Tim Heatley at face value with no prior knowledge of him I felt he was genuine, he was certainly passionate about Salford the Mansion and park. As I understood the presentation the houses would be one to two bedroomed properties sympathetically built in keeping with the park using natural materials I.e. Stone/ timber. They would be rental properties with no option to buy. The community area would have open pats and people visiting the park would have access to all paths. The rationale being that the houses would bring life back to the park. Residents living in the park would have a sense of 'ownership and pride' . A member at the meeting brought up the subject of traffic in the park and Tim indicated that details like restricting the traffic to pedestrian /cycles are things to work on if the proposal is one the resident of Salford see as acceptable. The park would be protected by a covenant, a member on the Facebook page commented about a previous covenant which was long standing and almost was overlooked. In this instance though we, the residents would be the guardians of that Covenant. Tim stated he is a local lad who attended school in Salford and went on to Man. Met. He has a passion for iconic buildings and remembers visiting Buile Hill as a boy. As a little girl I remember visiting the museum on many occasions and picnics in the park. As a student Nurse in the 1970's myself and three colleagues pushed patients in wheelchairs to Buile Hill form Ladywell Hospital. The park has its problems, I would not park my car there when walking my dogs and at night I would not even consider walking through. In my eyes it is the difference between driving past in five years time and saying " Do you remember the mansion in the park? " compared with " Ooh I wonder what's on at the mansion this week "

ian c wrote
at 08:02:59 on 30 November 2018
It's the thin end of the wedge, what next? A row of houses along Lower Seedley Road.It will only take a 60' strip.Maybe build in another park. Mr Heatley says he only wants a level playing field. Well he'd better hurry up with the speed this council want to approve building on playing fields.

Mary ferrer wrote
at 08:02:43 on 30 November 2018
I have spoken to Tim Heatley from capital and centric from capital and centric, he is aware of the people's feelings regarding the proposed houses. I have asked him would he not consider a land swap. He told me it is something he would look at. We will now have to wait and see if this is a possibility.

Bobs my uncle wrote
at 08:02:21 on 30 November 2018
This is the thin end of the wedge. If this goes ahead no park in Salford will be safe. This is just pure black mail of Salford people, weíll let the mansion rot if you donít allow us labour councillors to destroy this park, well f*ck labour and the developers. The amount of money we Salfordians have lost through section 106 monies that Salford Labour council canít be arst collecting from developers would have paid for this park and all other parks in Salford, so screw Tim Heatley, I donít trust him or the Salford Labour Party to look after this park or our interests. If they want more land for building, letís sell some of the land in Worsley, perhaps that bit of land in front of councillor Garido house or we could drain the water at the back of Fred doneís estate and put houses there. Thanks for the report star, let us know when the on line petition goes up. Screw labour, screw the developers. This is a con job, wrote at the bottom is right, when has labour done anything in Salford thatís been in the publicís interest, theyíve screwed us day in day out.

Ed Blaney wrote
at 21:34:52 on 29 November 2018
I don't think any houses should be built in the park. It's a public park. That proposed space could easily and should be transformed into space for multi events and leisure activity's for the general public. Everyone in Salford would love to see the mansion open to the public but not at such a cost of having houses built. That will destroy the park as it stands on the plans, limiting future events and activities for obvious reasons. Peel Park has recently been renovated and the same should apply to Buile Hill. I really hope this does not happen. More could and should be done to prevent any kind of housing being built on that or any other public park.

Tony Easom wrote
at 21:34:17 on 29 November 2018
I believe this man, Tim Heatley has the best interests of Salford people and the park at heart. It's a sound proposition with a commercial viability to restore the mansion under a covenant, or just let it rot. No houses in the park? There is no park where the depot stands anyway. No housee in the park? There is a clue in the name Mansion House, not the only mansion house to have been built in the park neither, one was recently the subject of an archaeological dig! No houses in the park? There are two on Weaste Lane! And what once a lodge house at the top of Seedly Park Road, was once home to Emily Panchurst! What a great history this park has of HOUSES IN THE PARK! If we care about keeping the best house we have ever had in the park then we need to listen to people with the vision and clout help us!

Mr brexit wrote
at 21:34:05 on 29 November 2018
Why not give it to the British legion, they can build a rehabilitation center for serving and ex soldiers. They can sell Broughton house and build a residential building on site for Broughton house residents, this would nearly guarantee lottery funding along with the sale of Broughton house, what better surrounding for our ex soldiers to recuperate in. We could bring back the hot house, golf course, tennis courts. We could keep the banqueting hall, itíll be great having a pint with a ex hero soldier. Wouldnít this be better than having southern yuppies driving their flash cars around our Salford Park, after Buile Hill, which will be the next park. If it has to be built on, then let it be heroes that have earned the right to be there and not people and developers whoíve give secret donations in planning rooms at the town hall. Salford Council have no money to bring Buile Hill back up to standard but money for Salford Reds etc. didnít I read in the star that Salford Labour council is owed £200 million in business rates, this is what happens when labour councillors get to close to millionaires and billionaires business owners, our Labour councillors are owned lock stock and barrel by these people.... no to the privatisation of Buile Hill Park or any other park in Salford. We need to get Labour out of Salford.

Paul Smithson wrote
at 18:49:08 on 29 November 2018
If the houses are kept within the derelict depot area, and if they remain in the ownership of Salford, I think it's worth backing to restore the mansion and gardens. Not ideal but it's far better than all the other options

Shaun Burrows wrote
at 18:48:38 on 29 November 2018
It is inconceivable that the council can even consider building house in one of the few green spots left to Salford residents. More houses in an area thatís saturated with new developments. There are thousands of new builds within a three mile radius of Buile Hill Park 2,200 on the new middlewood locks scheme as just on example. Where is the infrastructure for all these new builds,no new schools Salford royal hospital already at capacity roads continually grid locked. The council are short sighted and only see a ďquick buckĒ. This land belongs to the people of Salford, we need to get political and vote these people out

wrote
at 18:48:09 on 29 November 2018
You can see the punchline to this can't you? The council agree, then it will be a case of "We need to build the houses first to generate the money to do the mansion". After that it will be "The profit margins are not what we expected but we will do the mansion if the council contribute". Then the council will "loan " some money and end up getting stiffed for it after other loans are not repayed. You can see it can't you?

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